Doc's Talk: Foreign Minister Lieberman: We've Made Gestures, But Palestinian Incitement Continues

Thursday, August 26, 2010

Foreign Minister Lieberman: We've Made Gestures, But Palestinian Incitement Continues

From an interview yesterday on public Israeli radio, the following questions and answers
MFA

25 Aug 2010

The Palestinians are plainly not going out of a good, true, sincere wish to achieve peace and make progress. They are going because they’re being forced to. Yaron Dekel: In eight days the prime minister is going to a summit in Washington with the Palestinian Authority chairman, attended also by the king of Jordan and the president of Egypt. You, Mr. Foreign Minister, said long ago that this will lead nowhere. I guess you haven’t changed your mind, ahead of this summit.

FM Liberman: As usual, I look only at the facts. The Palestinians are plainly not going out of a good, true, sincere wish to achieve peace and make progress. They are going because they’re being forced to. They are going forearmed with conditions and demands that will torpedo or prevent any real, serious negotiations. So I find it clear that, just as we’ve seen on countless festive occasions, from Madrid through Naples, this will just be another event. The approaches of the two sides are obviously so fundamentally different. It’s difficult to talk about a peace agreement within a year, and what have we accomplished here in 17 years since Oslo? Suddenly within a year we’ll reach some kind of settlement? So I am extremely cautious, and I think the lower we set our expectations, the healthier it will be.

Yaron Dekel: The Americans should also lower their expectations, Mr. Minister?

FM Liberman: I think everybody should. The Americans, the Europeans, everyone has to lower their expectations. Nobody suddenly discovered a magic formula. We are not now clearly embarking on a path that will lead us within a year to a permanent settlement, an end to the conflict, and the solution to all the complex issues such as refugees, Jerusalem, settlements, Jewish expansion and so forth. I don’t see any such magic solution, despite all the attempts to infect everyone else with the same optimism. I think it is quite in order to lower expectations and be realistic.

Yaron Dekel: As you mentioned, the Palestinians will immediately place a mine on the table, namely a call for a freeze on construction in Judea and Samaria. The prime minister spoke about this yesterday from where he is vacationing in the north. Let’s recall what the prime minister said about renewing construction after September 26th:

PM Benjamin Netanyahu: "This freeze is for the postponement period, no more. And at cabinet meetings we made it clear that at the end of the postponement period, construction will resume. It has been ten days so far, and counting."

Did the prime minister convince you, Mr. Liberman?

FM Liberman: I think that, first of all, concerning the Palestinians, whoever comes with the all-or-nothing approach will end up with nothing. And that should be made clear to them. With an attitude like theirs, you can’t get anywhere.

Yaron Dekel: I asked you about Netanyahu and you answer about the Palestinians?

FM Liberman: The cabinet decision is explicit. And I have no reason to doubt what the prime minister said. We made an unequivocal decision of ten months, and there’s no reason for us to continue freezing construction. This is not just about settlements, and I wish to emphasize this point: The Palestinians are also talking about Jerusalem.

Right now on the table are 1,000 housing units in Ramot, and another 600 in neighborhoods such as Gilo, East Talpiot, Har Homa and Pisgat Ze’ev. Does anyone expect us to continue freezing 1,600 housing units that have already gone through all the procedures, permits, and tenders for construction, contractors, and execution? This is way past the planning stages.

Yaron Dekel: And what do you think Israel and Prime Minister Netanyahu should say if the American President - not Abu Mazen, not the Palestinians - but Secretary of State Clinton or President Barack Obama, tells the prime minister, "It’s starting now, this is serious, perhaps more than you think, more than Avigdor Liberman insinuated on 'It’s All Talk' on Kol Yisrael, and I’d like you, as a gesture of good will, to freeze building in Judea and Samaria for as long as possible." What do you think Mr. Netanyahu’s answer should be?

FM Liberman: The answer is quite obvious. We did make the gesture. For ten months we were waiting for the Palestinians to deign to come negotiate. They came during the last month. That’s their problem. And on the contrary, we expect the Palestinian side to cease incitement, stop naming streets and plazas after various [terrorist] “engineers.” Stop inciting and working against the State of Israel in all sorts of international forums or OECD, stop the boycotts and all the opposition to us, filing lawsuits in The Hague, and so on.

Yaron Dekel: In other words, what you’re saying is if Barack Obama, the President of the United States, makes the request, we should tell him, "Mr. President, with all due respect, we’ve already done that."

FM Liberman: We’ve made enough gestures and seen nothing in return. And I think it’s also in the Palestinians’ best interest. We shouldn’t have to pay for the pleasure of sitting at the table with the Palestinians, like we always have to pay. They should also have to pay. And first off, to get to the starting point, they should stop their rampant incitement against Jews and against Israel. And all their statements that they’ll never recognize the State of Israel as a Jewish state are just pre-indicators of their true intention.

Yaron Dekel: But you know, Foreign Minister Avigdor Liberman, that the suspicion in the Council of Jewish Settlements in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza is that construction will resume, but the one who is supposed to approve construction, as we all know, is Defense Minister Ehud Barak. He needs to sign it, and he won’t. Could it be that construction will officially resume but the person responsible for construction, Barak, will continue the freeze when the government announces resumed construction? Does that seem a likely scenario to you?

FM Liberman: First of all, let’s be precise. In Jerusalem the defense minister’s signature is not necessary.

Yaron Dekel: I’m talking about the settlement blocs.

FM Liberman: In Jerusalem there are 1,600 units primed for immediate construction. Secondly, in Judea and Samaria there are already 2,000 housing units that were frozen under the cabinet decision. They have already received all the permits and do not require the Defense Minister’s signature. These are some 2,000 housing units whose construction could commence immediately. Some of the construction is for single units seeking building alterations, various additions, from local committees which also do not require…

Yaron Dekel: I don’t want to go into the details of each building. I was asking in principle: Netanyahu and Liberman make the announcement, construction resumes, and Ehud Barak doesn’t sign. Plain and simple.

FM Liberman: In principle, from what I’ve heard, the Minister of Defense accepts the formula that it’s okay to build.

Yaron Dekel: Everywhere, or only in the blocs?

FM Liberman: In the settlement blocs, and I also don’t think you can punish people living outside the settlement blocs. Take for example a community like Tekoa, which was established during the Labor Party’s heyday, when they were still in power, before the upheaval of ’77. Thank God, there is a new kindergarten class there every year. Why would we punish those children and teachers who came and settled there when the Labor government convinced them it was a Zionist act and a challenge?

Yaron Dekel: Do I understand correctly, Minister Liberman, that you do not accept the formula now emerging out of Jerusalem, or Washington, of allowing construction but only in the settlement blocs? Outside the settlement blocs, the construction freeze will actually continue in the areas that Israel is negotiating over. Is that acceptable to you or not?

FM Liberman: I don’t wish to be contrary, create a provocation or rub anyone the wrong way. All I’m saying is that the formula that was always acceptable, also to the previous government, was natural expansion. I can’t accept a situation where today we punish thousands of loyal citizens who serve in the army, pay income tax, received completely legal permits, and moved there as a Zionist act. So we don’t need to create unnecessary confrontations but neither do we need to punish anyone, or cave in, because some sanity must be preserved.

Yaron Dekel: But your deputy, Danny Ayalon, spoke yesterday on Kol Yisrael’s Persian broadcast, although he spoke in English. He referred to your home in Nokdim and announced, on your behalf, that you are willing to vacate Nokdom. Here’s what Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon said yesterday on Kol Yisrael in Persian:

Deputy Minister Danny Ayalon: "Mr. Liberman himself said that for real peace he is willing to give up his own home in Nokdim which is a Jewish community in Judea and Samaria. For real peace he is willing to give up his own home! And he's not saying it only secretly. He also told it on record to the Washington Post and to Newsweek."

Are you willing to say this to Kol Yisrael as well, or only to the Washington Post and Newsweek?

FM Liberman: I think I said it in Hebrew, but with a Russian accent, before the elections. I said and emphasized it, that I said it before or after the elections. I said it more than once. I said if we really believe we are achieving a true peace agreement, including an end to the conflict, and the absence of future claims, and will truly be a Benelux in the Middle East, then I would certainly be willing to evacuate my home.

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The IDF’s Minorities in Numbers and Pictures

In honor of IDF Diversity Week, we present diversity through numbers and pictures. Each year, more and more Muslims, Christians, Druze, Bedouin and immigrants from around the world take on the responsibility of defending Israel.

MUSLIMS:

Muslim Arab Israelis are not required to draft in the IDF, but there are many who volunteer. In 2013, there were over 200 Muslims serving in the IDF and over 300 in the reserves.

Bedouins:

Bedouins are nomadic Muslims who were in Israel when modern borders were set in place and are now considered Israeli citizens. They are not required to draft but a growing number choose to enlist. In 2012, there were over 1,400 Bedouin Muslim soldiers doing regular IDF service and almost 1,500 in the reserves.

Read more:http://www.idfblog.com/2014/02/27/truth-idf-numbers-pictures/#more-34027

Are you aware that in 2013, Middle class taxes go up-significantly?

In January of next year, the federal income tax rate for middle-class taxpayers is scheduled to rise from 25 percent to 28 percent, and the payroll tax is scheduled to rise from 13.3 percent to 15.3 percent… This drives the marginal tax rate based on the aforementioned three taxes to 48.12 percent. Add in state and local property, corporate, excise, and other state and local taxes, and the percentage of each additional dollar that is taxed hovers around 50 percent… When half of each additional dollar earned is taxed away, taxpayers experience a disincentive to start businesses or expand existing ones. This leads to fewer jobs being created.

Why is HAMAS Inside Tampa Schools?

Clare Lopez

Kelly Miliziano, who teaches history classes at Steinbrenner High School in the Tampa, Florida area apparently thinks it’s perfectly OK to invite a senior official of a HAMAS-affiliated organization into her classroom to discuss Islam with her students. According to local media reports, not only has this been going on for years, but in spite of the civil and criminal proceedings that could result from such reckless negligence, the Hillsborough County school superintendent, Mary Ellen Elia, and the chairman of the school board, Candy Olson, also expressed approval for students under their responsibility to be exposed repeatedly to guest speaker, Hassan Shibly, who is the Executive Director for the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) in the Tampa area.
More...

Did You Know... Ignoring the Call to Islam will Bring Jihad

‘Conquest through Da’wa [proselytizing] that is what we hope for. We will conquer Europe, we will conquer America! Not through sword but through Da’wa.’
-- Yousef al-Qaradawi , Muslim Brotherhood spiritual leader The Arabic word ‘Da’wa’ means the “call to Islam.” But do not think that Da’wa is the same thing as an invitation to an optional holiday event. The classical Islamic doctrine of jihad mandates that enemies must be given the opportunity to convert to Islam or pay the jizya tax before it is permissible to attack them.
Clare M. Lopez

Who is being discriminated-facts tell the truth

Religious bias

Hate crimes motivated by religious bias accounted for 1,409 offenses reported by law enforcement. A breakdown of the bias motivation of religious-bias offenses showed:

65.4 percent were anti-Jewish.
13.2 percent were anti-Islamic.
9.5 percent were anti-other religion, i.e., those not specified.
4.3 percent were anti-Catholic.
3.8 percent were anti-multiple religions, group.
3.3 percent were anti-Protestant.
0.5 percent were anti-Atheism/Agnosticism/etc.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2010/narratives/hate-crime-2010-incidents-and-offenses.

On March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview

with PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said:

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."

In March 1977, Zahir Muhsein, a PLO executive, said:

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism."

"For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."

The Arab Apartheid

Ben-Dror Yemini
In 1948, the Arab countries refused to accept the UN partition proposal and they launched a war of annihilation against the State of Israel which had barely been established. All precedents in this matter showed that the party that starts the war - and with a declaration of annihilation, yet - pays a price for it. Between 550,000 and 710,000 Arabs fled because of the war and a larger number of 850,000 Jews were expelled or fled from Arab countries (the "Jewish nakba").
Population exchanges and expulsions were the norm at that time, occurring in dozens of other conflict points and affecting about 52 million people. In all the population exchange precedents that occurred during or at the end of an armed conflict, there was no return of refugees to the previous region, which had turned into a new national state.
Only the Arab states acted completely differently from the rest of the world. Instead of assimilating the refugees, they crushed them despite the fact that they were their coreligionists and members of the Arab nation - instituting a regime of apartheid. So the "nakba" was not caused by the actual dispossession, which had also been experienced by tens of millions of others. The "nakba" is the story of the apartheid, oppression, abuse and denial of rights suffered by the Arab refugees at the hands of the Arab countries. (Maariv)

International Law and Military Operations in Practice - Col. Richard Kemp

"Islamist fighting groups study the international laws of armed conflict carefully and they understand it well. They know that a British or Israeli commander and his men are bound by international law and the rules of engagement that flow from it. They then do their utmost to exploit what they view as one of their enemy's main weaknesses. Their very modus operandi is built on the correct assumption that Western armies will normally abide by the rules, while these insurgents employ a deliberate policy of operating consistently outside international law. "

Lost Historical Moments

What Rabin’s last Knesset speech really said:repudiation of a Palestinian state

Rabin ruled out a fully sovereign Palestinian state :

“We view the permanent solution in the framework of State of Israel which will include most of the area of the Land of Israel as it was under the rule of the British Mandate, and alongside it a Palestinian entity which will be a home to most of the Palestinian residents living in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. We would like this to be an entity which is less than a state, and which will independently run the lives of the Palestinians under its authority.”

Rabin ruled out a total withdrawal from Judea and Samaria and thus a return to the pre-June 1967 borders :

“The borders of the State of Israel, during the permanent solution, will be beyond the lines which existed before the Six Day War. We will not return to the 4 June 1967 lines.”

Rabin ruled out withdrawing form the Jordan Valley:

“The security border of the State of Israel will be located in the Jordan Valley, in the broadest meaning of that term.”

Rabin ruled out uprooting settlement blocs, like the Gush Katif bloc in Gaza (which was subsequently uprooted by former Prime Minister Ariel Sharon):

“The establishment of blocs of settlements in Judea and Samaria, like the one in Gush Katif.

AND

Rabin ruled out removing any settlement before coming to a full peace agreement with the Palestinians:

“I want to remind you: we committed ourselves, that is, we came to an agreement, and committed ourselves before the Knesset, not to uproot a single settlement in the framework of the interim agreement, and not to hinder building for natural growth.”

Rabin insisted on Israel retaining full security control of the borders with Egypt and Jordan, contrary to Israel’s relinquishment of the Philadelphia Corridor on the border with Egypt:

“The responsibility for external security along the borders with Egypt and Jordan, as well as control over the airspace above all of the territories and Gaza Strip maritime zone, remains in our hands.”

Correcting Oslo Myths-Part 2

3) Kuttab laments that the post-1993 Oslo process resulted in a Palestinian Authority "whose ministers and legislators are not guaranteed passage between Gaza and the West Bank ...."

Before free passage or other perquisites, PA leaders were obligated, among other things, to eliminate the terrorist infrastructure in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, end anti-Israeli, antisemitic incitement in schools, mosques, and communications media, and resolve all outstanding issues through peaceful negotiations. They met none of these commitments, sometimes bolstering terrorism and greatly increasing incitement.

4) Kuttab complains that under Oslo the PA got "lightly armed police ---- but no real sovereignty over the land or contiguity between our communities in Gaza and the West Bank."

Oslo agreements repeatedly were revised, regardless of Palestinian non-compliance, until the authorized number of police grew from 8,000 to 40,000. Though they were to be the only armed forces in the territories, Israeli estimates early in the second intifada put the number of gunmen - police, "security services," terrorists, and armed gangs - at 85,000. Their armament reportedly included not only heavy machine guns and rocket-propelled grenades, but also anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles.

Sovereignty was to be negotiated in the envisioned 1998 "final status" talks - after a five-year period of confidence-building. Palestinian leadership chronically undermined the process. Palestinian terrorism made the 1993 - 1998 Oslo period more deadly for Israelis than the 15 years preceding it.

The United States doesn't have contiguity between the lower 48 states and Alaska and Hawaii; territorial contiguity between the West Bank and Gaza Strip - that is, through the 20 miles of Israeli territory between them - was never promised and would destroy Israeli contiguity.

5) "Palestinians have been made to endure hundreds of checkpoints in the West Bank, an eight-foot wall deep in our territories, and tight Israeli control over borders."

The security barrier is not "deep in Palestinian territories," but rather encompasses less than 8 percent of Judea and Samaria, and is mostly a fence, rarely a wall; the land in question is not "our [Palestinian] territories" but disputed territory to which, according to the authors of U.N. Security Council Resolution 242, Jews as well as Arabs have claims; and there are no international borders, only the 1949 armistice lines with Jordan. Under 242, borders remain to be negotiated. As for checkpoints - like the security barrier and "tight Israeli control" - Palestinian Arabs precipitated these measures themselves. No terrorism and there would be no fence or tight Israeli control and few checkpoints - like before the first intifada.

Correcting Some Oslo Myths

1) In Oslo "Israeli, Palestinian and other world leaders promised that ... Palestinian sovereignty would be solidified."

No, they didn't. The 1993 Declaration of Principles and subsequent Oslo agreements outlined a process by which final status negotiations about the West Bank and Gaza Strip would be reached. The process required an end to anti-Israel terrorism and incitement and a commitment to peaceful negotiations. The PA, Fatah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, and other terrorist groups, sabotaged the process from the start.

2) "The reality is that, in defiance of U.N. Security Council Resolution 242, which states that it is inadmissible to occupy land by force, Palestinian territories are still under foreign military occupation."
Wrong again. Resolution 242 (1967) does note "the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war." It also affirms the right of every state in the area "to live in peace with secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force." There were no "Palestinian territories." Jordan occupied the West Bank, Egypt controlled Gaza. Israel did not have "secure and recognized boundaries," so retention of some of those territories was possible under 242. Israel is not a "foreign" military occupier in the West Bank but, pending final negotiations, the lawful military administrator as a result of a successful war of self-defense.

Doc's Talk