Nurit
Greenger
Twenty
years of stepping in one place, with no peace with the Arabs in sight, better
yet, regressing and being pummeled in the international arena has made many
Israelis finally catch their heads with an epiphany that the Oslo Accords, that
gave birth to the "peace process" and the "two state solution,"
all invented and imposed on them by Shimon Peres, Yossi Beilin et al was
nothing more than horrific mistake. More
so, such a solution could be described as the end of the nation state of the Jewish
people, Israel.
Even
when we bear in mind that the facts of twenty years of the "peace process"
charade shine in front of every human being who chooses to face and admit to the
truth, there are those who still peddle this idiotic idea.
Early
this week ,I received a mail from the Jewish-Israel News & Views its title:
"Should North American pro-Israel Jewish Organizations Be Advocating
Support For The 2 State Solution?" written by Bill Narvey, from Calgary Alberta
Canada. [Copy of the article at the bottom of this essay]
When
I saw the title, in it the "2 State Solution", I did not proceed to
read the article because for me the two state is not a solution for Israel
rather its dissolution. Since I belong
to few Internet debate groups I was copied many replies to this article, from
pundits as well as sensible activists from around the world.
To
me, the two state "solution" tops among the five greatest mistakes
Israel has ever made. An agreement that was never thought through and have been
frantically pursued by one government of Israel after another and that I define
as foolish at best and schizophrenically insane at worst.
After
much thinking I have decided to make some of these replies public, in order to
assert the fact that the Peter Beinart, Thomas Friedman, Bill Narvey et al of
the world are in the minority and DO NOT speak for the Israelis, who, at the
end of the day are the ones who will have to decide their fate. They will have
to decide if they want to give up Judea and Samaria to a bunch of terrorists who
want to annihilate their existing state and kill every Jew living there or,
find a solution that will be best for them and the generations to come; a
solution that will ensure that Israel exists, if not in peace with the Moslem
states around her, then at least with total security and deterrence.
The
truth is that two Jews hardly agree on anything, let alone a whole nation, but
I believe that the majority of Israeli-Jews will agree with all the opinions
presented below.
Here
are the gems responses I have collated – with names kept confidential:
MS: Israel cannot - and
will not--survive a two state solution. This failed fraudulent notion must be
removed from the debate as soon as possible
The
access to leadership is function of the vigor of Israeli diplomacy. The
situation we see today is a reflection of the lack thereof.
Imagine
if Israel decided to allot for the next decade 0.005 of its GDP for public
diplomacy, i.e. one billion dollars, to make its case loud and clear instead of
the pathetically puny sums assigned today.
With
a billion dollars you can buy a lot of friends and influence, and access.
The
problem is that Israel has lost the will to win - because the Left who control
the discourse in the land have made "victory" an inadmissible concept. Because if victory is feasible there is no
need to concede [to give up land] and that would invalidate the Left world view,
which brings them so much goodies.
BC: I don’t believe in
a 2-state solution, not even the one in which Jordan is Palestine. The whole
land was stolen, and the Jews have, by far, the best legal case. If Israel
wants the land, it has to take it, get rid of the little “Liar King” of Jordan,
and start encouraging Arabs to take his place over there.
Re-electing
that psychopath and liar US president is a great concern. However, I really
doubt Netanyahu formed a broad coalition for this purpose. Because Bibi caves in
to US presidents, no matter what. Lucky Israel he doesn’t need to deal with
Ahmadinejad face to face, otherwise he would cave in, too. He scores points by
kowtowing to Ehud Barak and the High Court and expelling Jews, whom he does not
deal with face to face.
So
let us continue the fight, because a 2-state solution, principally west of the Jordan
river, may be worse than death for Israel.
As
SH says, most Israelis are unfit to govern Israel. In my view, that weird
system of election and governing they have in Israel only exacerbate what SH says.
EK: From my position,
it seems that only Left wing pacifiers are willing to give in to the “Two State
Solution”.
I
disagree with your observation. By all international
laws, biblical laws and other practical reasons, I will never agree to a two
state solution, especially when I believe that the only solution is a ONE Jewish
State solution. Only Left wing liberal
weenies believe that the Arabs, who lost the wars they waged on Israel, are
entitled to a state called Palestine on the west side of the Jordan River. Do you actually believe that once we give the
Arabs that state they will love the Jews?
Of course not. That being the
case, why should the Arabs have their state in the proximity of Israel where
they would be a constant threat to the safety of her citizens? The Jordan River is a natural border that can
provide a common defense for both, Arabs and Jews. The same holds true for Gaza;
6 million Jews need to be secure from one billion Arabs who, at a blink of an
eye, would cut the head off any Jew.
Israel
and Jews around the world need to stand up to Obama and the EU and their pitiful
threats. If Israel takes the proper
steps to finally annex Judea and Samaria, Obama would be neutered.
All
those who advocate, support and promote a two state solution do so for only one
reason. They hope it will be the final solution to the Jews. All of them know clearly that such a situation
would lead to the mass murder of all the Jews in Israel and later in the rest
of the world and that is exactly what they want. To those Jews who promote this,
all I can say is why wait? Kill yourself today and avoid the rush.
Bill,
I still do not understand your acceptance of the status quo of Israel. To me it sounds that you have surmised that
there is nothing that Israelis can do to change the political position that
exists in today’s Israeli arena. Again,
if this is true, I disagree. Israel must
strike while the iron is hot, while there is confusion in the ranks of the Arabs
with their so called "Arab Spring" revolutions. The existential threat of Iran looms large
and, by doing nothing it becomes more dangerous for Israel by the day.
Do
Israelis deserve to live under this threat each day and accept their fate,
which would be in the hands of Muslims? Or will Israel act for its own welfare
and break the bonds? In my opinion, so long as Jews and Arabs live within the
same confines, there will never be peace.
Natural, geographic borders will be the only answer for any chance of a
peace to exist for Israel. The taking,
even if by force, all of Judea and Samaria and Gaza, annexing, occupying and
fortifying the borders will give Israel the breathing room she needs for a long
period of time. Even in the future, if
this is true, for the Muslims, as stated in the Koran, Jews must die, let it be
on the Jews' terms and not the Arabs'.
What
I have not mentioned in this context is that today there are almost 8 million
citizens in Israel – Jews and Arabs - and I forecast that in ten years there
will be fifteen million and growing, largely because of Jew baiting in Europe
that will increase Aliyah, thus the need to have the land that, anyhow, legally
belongs to Israel.
SH: I cannot help noticing
that those who, by design, either been to Israel for some time, or live in
Israel permanently, have completely different positions with reference to Eretz
Israel, from those who have never been to visit the land or spent a short visit
here.
My
brother, who is very much on the left side of things, once said something that
I remember as point of reference.
Galut-Diaspora
Jews are no different than other human beings.
Most people adopt positions that would make their lives easier. Jews in Eretz Israel cannot bend to that.
Those
Jews who choose to remain in the Galut cannot possibly relate to Har-Gerizim or
Kever Yoshua ben-Nun, etc., in the way Jews who live in Israel do.
While
on a visit to Samaria, few weeks ago, we ascended Mount Gerizim, walking up the
mountain on an ancient trail. We stopped
to look down the valley to where Kever Yoseph is located.
Our
younger son was with us; he picked up a pebble that I later on placed on the
shelf over my desk. He wrote about the
stone: could this stone have been there when Yoshuah ben-Nun led the Jews to
the Altar in Mount Gerizim, after they crossed the Jordan River? Sure it was, he wrote. Plain and simple.
Regardless
of protestations, we will not follow what is convenient to foreigners, be them
Jewish or Goyim-non-Jews. Nothing doing.
Nothing
will be permanently changed in Israel by following compromises to come or past
ones, made to please foreign folks.
Even
the Sinai peninsula is seemingly back in the cauldron.
There
will be NO compromises so that other governments, or people, feel better and
secure outside Eretz Israel. Oil and
trade maybe important to others but to US, Eretz Israel trumps it all.
BM: Though oftentimes I
agree with your op-ed pieces, this time I strongly disagree with the conclusion
you have drawn - that North American pro-Israel Jewish organizations should
support a two-state solution. One of the main arguments you have made to reach
that conclusion is the following:
If
mainstream Jewish organizations were to suddenly adopt the positions of the
anti-2 state solution, even if such positions are unassailably proven,
mainstream Jewish organizations would find themselves taking a position
antithetical to government policy and majority attitudes. The result, they would quickly find that the
access to government and the power elite, they have, successfully cultivated
over the years, being denied to them.
Don't
you think that the politicians would be interested in the Jewish vote despite
leadership's adoption of that "antithetical" position? And, don't you
think they would still be interested in the political dollars represented by
some of the people comprising that vote? Politicians will always be interested
in the Jewish vote and in attracting Jewish political contributions! That being
said, wouldn't it be nice for those politicians to hear the truth for a change?
It might even make sense to them!
Bill,
as you are probably well aware, some of Israel's most esteemed members of the
Knesset have publicly stated that implementation of the two-state solution
would result in Israel's destruction.
In
2007, Brig. Gen., Retired, MK Dr. Arieh Eldad, who was the head of the burn
unit at Hadassah Hospital in Jerusalem during the height of the Intifada, said:
“The two-state-solution is dead. The Palestinians never wanted it. If they did
they would have had an independent state as early as 1948. Israelis understand that any land given over
to Arabs serves only as the next terror base against Israel.”
In
September 2008,Prof. MK Yuval Steinitz, an active member of Peace Now, before
Oslo and a former chairman of the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense
Committee, said: “The idea of a two-state solution should be dead, today,
because unfortunately a Palestinian state in Judea and Samaria would bring
about Israel's demise... [Such a Palestinian state would] immediately become an
outpost for Iran." "I felt that what we did was a terrible mistake
[signing on to the Oslo Accords in 1993] … I realized that, to my frustration,
we were giving up land for war and terror and incitement." As the
Palestinians continued with their anti-Israel and anti-Semitic rhetoric, he
worried that "instead of a demilitarized Palestinian state we might end up
with a militarized Palestinian state in the center of the country."
Steinitz
said that the only reason Qassem rockets had not been fired at the center of
the country or at Ben-Gurion International Airport was because Israel had a
military presence in the West Bank.
When
President Mahmoud Abbas (The "moderate") hugged Lebanese terrorist
Samir Kuntar, the man who killed three Jews in Naharyia, including a
four-year-old girl, it showed Steinitz that Abbas was no different than the
former PA leader Yasser Arafat.
in
April, 2010, Strategic Affairs Minister Moshe Ya'alon, said: "Those who
want to continue the Oslo process, who want us to continue to give and give and
give, without a Palestinian willingness to recognize our right to a national
home, are cooperating with the phased plans for Israel's destruction."
In
May 19, 2011, Likud MK Danny Danon said: “Barack Hussein Obama adopted Yasser
Arafat’s staged plan for Israel’s destruction, and he is trying to force it on
our prime minister. All that was new in the speech was that he called for
Israel to return to 1967 borders, without solving the crisis. Netanyahu has
only one option: Tell Obama to forget about it.”
Tuesday,
12.13.2011, Education Minister Gideon Sa'ar said that the establishment of a
Palestinian state in the West Bank is a “dangerous move” which will not “bring
peace.”
Sources:
It
is incumbent upon the supporters of Israel to educate mainstream Jewish
leadership about the suicidal two-state "solution" paradigm. Then, it is incumbent upon the leadership to
strongly lobby their local and national politicians - with confidence and
conviction - about the likely disastrous results of that failed
"peace" plan.
Imagine
if the Jewish organizations were united in opposition to the two-state
"solution," and they advertised it in major newspapers and on TV.
Don't you think that would be a better approach than agreeing with a position
to which they oppose, just to get an ear in the Capitol and White House and to
keep things the way they are? What they/we are doing is not working. In fact,
Israel is in much more peril than ever before! We must try something DIFFERENT.
The Truth sounds like a great place at which to start.
Caroline
just published the article, Let’s embrace our friends – friends are the 350,000 Jews
living in Judea and Samaria.(http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=270472)
Judea
and Samaria happened to be the heart of ancient, historical Israel. Therefore,
there should be no capitulation to any demands from anyone for a "two
state solution." A solution between two parties – in this case the Arabs
and the Israeli-Jews - implies some kind of equity of outcome for each side.
Giving up Judea and Samaria serves only one side, the Arab side, and that side
still teaches each new generation to murder Jews who are their eternal enemy.
The
emphasis is on leadership. We need strong leadership in Israel who does what is
right for Israel's survival no matter what pressure and international demands
they face. Putting up the security wall and fences with check points was just
such a bold strategy that protects Israeli lives well. And all over the world
Israel suffers from bad PR as a result yet, it was the right thing to do and it
works.
Those
who lie about Israel already out there claiming that Israel is an expansionist
state, wanting to "occupy" and take over all the land as far as the
eye can see. So why not simply leave the land that already belongs to historical
Israel and be done with it?
The
Israeli-Jews will suffer world condemnation no matter what steps they take.
That is the nature of our lot, as Jews, in life. So because of, or in spite of
that fact, Israel should act, selfishly, and on behalf of Israel and her future
survival.
The
time is now to unite, shred the two-state idea and put the entire Judea and
Samaria under Israeli law. Then find a solution to the terrorist enclave Gaza
that works for Israel and be done with the Hamastan cesspool. And finally open
a new and politically healthy page in modern Israel history.
***
Jewish-Israel
News & Views
May
17, 2012
Bill
Narvey, Calgary AB
Should
North American pro-Israel Jewish
Organizations Be Advocating Support For The 2 State Solution?
European
attitudes over the past decades have become increasingly anti-Israel. Those attitudes have been influenced by
resurgent irrational antisemitism throughout the EU and the ever present
antisemitic views of Russian influenced Eastern Europe. The nations in that massive continental
region, thus are largely impervious to rational pro-Israel counter arguments
advanced by Jewish organizations.
This
wave of anti-Israel and antisemitic sentiment has not washed over Canada and
the States. The U.S. in particular, is still
the most powerful voice to
counter-balance anti-Israel and antisemitic world sentiment. It is therefore in North America where
pro-Israel Jewish organizations have the best chance to influentially advance
Israel’s case.
This
piece therefore deals only with Canadian and American mainstream and lesser
Jewish organizations whose pro-Israel advocacy incorporates support for the 2
state solution.
Before
answering the title question and to put it in context, it is important to note that there is a
significant minority of Jews, without much, if any major mainstream Jewish organization
representation, who reject the 2 state
solution.
These
2 state solution contrarians advocate that Israel by virtue of biblical
doctrine, historical, military precedent, international law and by every
objective measure is entitled to
exclusive dominion and sovereignty over Judea and Samaria. They contend that if the Palestinians are
entitled to their own independent state,
that state Jordan, already exists.
Further, these contrarians argue that Israel over the years has been
pressured by world powers and in particular the U.S., to make concessions to
enable the 2 state solution to be realized, which concessions have only
resulted in Israel’s short and long term security being prejudiced and that
peace between Israel and the Palestinians, Arabs and Muslim Middle East has only been pushed further away. Put another way, the 2 state solution has
been an exercise in futility for the reasons they cite and that there is nothing
but wishful thinking behind further efforts to that end.
The
anti 2 state peace solution arguments are that the 2 state peace solution is
wrong, no matter which way you look at it.
Those arguments are loaded with objective facts spanning history to the present day,
including international law treatises
that purport to justify their positions.
Those arguments are cogent,
powerful and compelling.
The
force of their arguments however, are undermined by the fact that Israel has
since its year of rebirth, set herself on the path towards a 2 state peace
solution. PM Netanyahu in recent years,
became the 1st Israeli PM to explicitly state Israel’s position that she would
accept as the outcome of direct and successful 2 state solution peace
negotiations, an independent Palestinian state on the lands of Judea and
Samaria, albeit he only did so under tremendous pressure from President Obama.
Regardless
of whether the anti-2 state solution advocates have the superior argument, the reality is that Israel for a number
of well known reasons, some maybe good
and some certainly bad, has taken a
supportive position for the 2 state solution.
These
arguments of the 2 state solution contrarians have been largely ignored by the
majority of Jews and mainstream Jewish organizations or have been summarily dismissed as coming from the right
wing, as if being right wing is some
kind of mental disease. Such denunciations
of the anti-2 state solution advocates’ arguments are not serious and cogent
counter arguments.
Further
such denunciations are dishonest. The
fact is that supporters of the 2 state peace solution include many so called
right wingers.
Mainstream
and lesser Jewish organizations that support the 2 state solution are not only
unfair to the 2 state solution contrarians, they are being unfair and doing
themselves a great disservice by dismissing these contrarians out of hand.
There
is much in the 2 state solution contrarians’ arguments that is valuable and
which does not per se negate support for the 2 state solution. Rather, many of the positions taken by these
contrarians can be used to strengthen pro-Israel advocacy arguments advanced by
mainstream Jewish leadership.
This
leads to the title question: Should our
mainstream major Jewish organizations be advocating support for the 2 state
solution?
Our
reality is that all Western governments, politicians and power elites in all
levels of society , support the 2 state solution for Israel and
Palestinians. Whether this support is a
matter of conventional wisdom or collective delusion has been debated for years
and that debate will continue.
One
of the strategies of main stream Jewish
organizations is to lobby government and the political power elite to
establish, maintain and increase amongst them, positive attitudes and support
for Jews and Israel, including awareness and empathy for Jews’ and Israel’s
sensitivities, sensibilities, concerns and existential needs.
If
mainstream Jewish organizations were to suddenly adopt the positions of the
anti-2 state solution, even if such positions are unassailably proven, mainstream Jewish organizations would find
themselves taking a position antithetical to government policy and majority
attitudes. They would in the result,
quickly find the access to government and the power elite that they have
successfully cultivated over the years,
being denied them.
The
title question posed , it is submitted must be therefore be answered in the
affirmative. This is not to denigrate in the least, the arguments
advanced by the anti 2 state solution advocates.
Further
and more importantly, answering the title question in the affirmative, does not
end the matter.
Mainstream
and lesser Jewish leadership voicing that mantra, is really akin to their
using a key to open doors to the various institutional halls of power and
society at large in order to have the opportunity to make Israel’s case and win
over hearts and minds with words and ideas.
The
more important question this leads to is, what specific pro-Israel messages do
mainstream and lesser Jewish organizations deliver, once they have used the
mantra of support for the 2 state solution to get them in the door?
Revealed
by their public statements, it is clear that our major and lesser Jewish
organizations that mouth the mantra of supporting the 2 state solution, are at
times advocating differing views on what support for the 2 state solution
means. At times those views are so
fundamentally different as to be antithetical in terms of what must be done to
realize that solution, what is expected and demanded of Israel and Palestinians
respectively in that regard and what are the rights and needs of Palestinians
and Israelis respectively.
Such
lack of even general uniformity of pro-Israel messaging, breeds confusion, not
only in the minds of government and other political and institutional elites,
but in the minds of the Jewish community at large. The net result is that differing and
conflicting pro-Israel messaging undermines the power and persuasiveness of all
organizations engaged in pro-Israel advocacy.
The
specific positions articulated as to what support for the 2 state solution
means and how it is to be achieved, appears to be influenced by the political
leanings, from right to left of the
various advocacy organizations.
For
instance, those on the right who support the 2 state solution, see
Israel’s security needs as
paramount. They blame the
Arabs-Palestinians in the main or exclusively for the failure to realize the 2
state solution, citing in particular their historically intractable Jew-Israel
hatred and their stated dreams of ultimately destroying Israel and taking all
the land of Israel for themselves, for Islam or both. These advocates hold that unless and until
Arab-Palestinian and Muslim Middle East culture can rid itself or at least
substantially weaken the influence of
Jew-Israel hatred, the 2 state solution cannot be achieved or that if
achieved, such peace will be fleeting as ingrained Jew-Israel hatreds will
quickly unravel any peace agreement
reached.
Those
on the more hard left, advocate that Israel is at fault for not having done
enough to make the 2 state solution happen.
They cast the Palestinians as the underdog, hold that Israeli
settlements are illegal, largely give the Palestinians/Arabs a pass for their
wrongdoing and thus call on Israel to keep making concessions until a point is
reached where the Palestinians will finally say yes to the 2 state
solution. What that point might be
cannot be foreseen and will only be known if and when Palestinians actually say
yes to a 2 state solution.
Exemplifying
this hard left organization is J Street, which quickly rose to prominence as
the go to Jewish organization Pres. Obama relied on for credibility on his
claim that he was fully supportive of Israel, in spite of his words and deeds
that caused Israel much grief to the consternation of even some of his staunch
democratic supporters, most famously perhaps, former NYC mayor Ed Koch. J Street’s so called support of Israel,
brought to mind the expression, with friends like that, who needs enemies.
There
are many more examples of disparate and conflicting pro-Israel messaging as
between various mainstream and lesser
Jewish organizations that claim to support the 2 state solution.
Two
side, but important matters pro-Israel Jewish organizations and advocates, be
they for or against the 2 state solution can and must come together on.
By
using the access they have gained to people, government and institutions it is
an opportunity for pro-Israel advocates to raise greater awareness of the two
issues that Western governments, politicians and institutional leaders turn a
willfully blind eye to.
The
first issue is Palestinian, Arab and Muslim Middle East Jew-Israel hatred. Whether Jews are for or against the 2 state
solution, it is abundantly clear that Western powers are fearful to single that issue out as a
major, if not the sole hurdle that must be addressed, dealt with and overcome,
if there is to be any chance of bringing the 2 state solution to fruition.
The
2nd issue relates to Hamas in Gaza, which Hamas factor is equally ignored by
those Western powers pushing Israel and Palestinians to reach a 2 state
solution.
Even
if by some miracle, Israel could make a 2 state solution peace deal with the
Palestinian Authority, it means nothing if Hamas in Gaza is not part of the
deal. So far and as far as they eye can
see into the future, Hamas will never, ever abandon its intent to unseat Abbas’
Fatah and P.A. based out of Ramallah, take control of Palestinians there and
then fueled by their intractable seething Jew-Israel hatred, act on their Jihadist beliefs and use every
means at its disposal to destroy Israel and reclaim all of Israel’s land for
Islam.
Convincing
our Canadian and American leaders to open their eyes to the reality of these
two issues and getting them to confront these issues head on, would be an
historic critical accomplishment for our
North American Jewish leadership.
Dealing
with these issues and succeeding might
be just what is needed to bring a real, stable and secure 2 state solution to fruition. Trying and
failing, might open the door to a new and different peace solution paradigm
that does give Israel the peace she wants and needs and which deal might even
be better than the one now sought which calls for Israel to make very painful
and risky compromises for the sake of
peace.
In
either case, not only would pro-Israel 2 state solution supporters, but
pro-Israel 2 state solution contrarians would win and Israel would be the big
winner.
The
2nd matter concerns the Iranian existential threat posed to Israel. America must act now and lead the West to
immediately impose crippling sanctions on Iran.
If those sanctions are not effective, America must lead the West in
attacking and destroying Iran as a
threat to Israel, the region and to the West.
If that does not happen and things keep going from bad to worse, Israel
likely will be forced to attack Iran.
If
Israel succeeded, Iran would be defanged and the political and power landscape
of the Middle East would change. Such
change might well usher in a brand new and different peace paradigm opportunity
that would bring Israel a real, stable and enduring peace.
Pro-Israel
Jewish organizations and advocates of every stripe would be the winners and
Israel the big winner.
If
Israel, lost… game over. Pro-Israel
advocacy organizations would be out of a job.
Those
are the stakes.
North
American Jewish organizations, be they for or against the 2 state solution are
joined at the hip on the Iranian threat to Israel. Convincing American and Western leaders to
act quickly to end the Iranian threat by whatever means necessary, would be a
major historical accomplishment.
With
such life and death stakes, it is an accomplishment mainstream and lesser
Jewish organizations and indeed all Jews should be coming together on to do
whatever they can to make that happen.
The
bottom line is that declaring support for the 2 state solution is essential to
get mainstream and lesser Jewish organizations through the doors of government,
the power elites and society at large, in order to make Israel’s case.
It
is however, just as important that once through those doors, that mainstream
and lesser Jewish organizations must find
ways to ensure that their pro Israel messaging is less conflicted and
thus clearer and stronger not only to inform and persuade the powers that be,
but ensure greater awareness, understanding and caring about the issues and what is at stake by the Jewish community
at large.
In
other words, in spite of some disagreements between the pro-Israel factions,
they should be working together to better ensure that their pro-Israel
messaging is coming from the same Siddur, if not the same page.
Not
only does our Jewish community at large expect it of our mainstream
leadership. We demand it!
.
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