MK Dr. Arieh Eldad‏

Arieh Eldad, the brightest of the bright in Israel's politics, regrettably is departing from politics. The Israelis are not politically wise enough to read him and understand that no one in the Knesset is a better defender of their country and their interests than Eldad.  Here is my translation of this lengthy interview with nrg.Ma'artiv: http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART2/461/152.html?hp=1&cat=404&loc=20

Bye, bye but bit goodbye: MK Arieh Eldad departs from the Knesset to cut trees, to write a book on the problems of the Right's vision or head the IAEA [International Atomic Energy]? Until he returns to the Knesset, former MK has many plans.

A stormy interview by Sari Makover-Blikoc

Just like MK Ahmed Tibi, Aryeh Eldad also managed to juggle, in an astonishing agility between two very different diametrically opposed areas: politics and medicine. In one corner he burned the Palestinian flag and led street battles with police in the Amona outpost and in the other corner he treated terrorists wounded in the Department of Plastic Surgery.

What a doctor doing in politics?

"In the Knesset I was engaged in preventive medicine. I prevented the establishment of the Palestinian state. When the Israeli governments sent the army to fire on empty lots instead of going to an all-out war with the Arabs, I thought that even if I perform one other skin graft on a badly burnt skin, I will not prevent the next victim from coming into my department . After we took in more than 3,000 wounded in the intifada, I understood that it is impossible to stop this terrible wave of terrorism in the operation room.

"Suicide bombers arrive to my department and it was completely abnormal. If I saw may patient walking down the street with a backpack and inside it a bomb, I'd get a gun and shoot him. But if I did not succeed in killing him, but only to wound him, I would have rushed to the hospital to save him . this is not normal. The reality of life here is not normal. This frustration prompted me to leave the hospital and to join the Knesset."

Will you be back to the Knesset?

"I did not leave politics even for a moment. My father was in politics all his life and was not even one day in the Knesset. If the Likud will be loyal to the party's constitution and the Jewish Home will be faithful to the leaders leading it, I would not be unnecessary there. If, on the eve of the next election Israel will go towards the Palestinian's direction, I'll be back."

You may not pass receive enough votes again

"The fact that a person has failed once, must not stop him from trying again. Recently I read a book on the State of Israel as start-up super power. It turns out that significant number of the successful exits were of people who have failed on their first attempt. One person tried, for example, to invent an electric cat and was not successful, so he invented an electric apparatus that turned to be the mixer. "

Where did you fail?

"In the medical world at the end of the day you walk out of the operating tom and you can give yourself account on where you had success and where you did not. In politics, when things happen for better or worse, you cannot tell yourself, with honestly that it is because of you. There are many components and affects that surround you. I was seeking, for years, that moment that my finger will save the State of Israel. It did not happen. There was not one vote that I could say that my voice has saved the people. I was successful in only one mission, to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state. The fact, it was not established to date."

It did not help you pass the voting percentage threshold?

"I'm disappointed. I did not manage to achieve my goals in the election's campaign., But I also challenged that there is a possibility to embark on something new that I have not done yet. I can write. I can be a carpenter and work with wood; for several years I abused some wooden block trying to get something from it . I can engage in medical or security research, to compete for management positions. Everything depends on the opportunity. If they offered me to serve as the CEO of the International Nuclear Disarmament Agency, let's say, I will have to weigh whether my contribution will be greater than treating burns' victims."

Till they offer you to serve as the CEO of the IAEA?

"I intend to write a book that deals with the vision problem of Right-Wing leaders in Israel. Research in ophthalmology about their expression, 'Things that you see from there you do not see from here.' Let us start with Begin, continue with Sharon and finish with Olmert and Netanyahu. Because every time a Right-Wing leader comes to power he adopts the Peace Now doctrine, and when one complaints to his he says, "Things that you see from there you do not see from here."

"At least with some of them it stems from the fact that their ideology's foundation were an ax to dig with and not personality factors. Especially with Sharon. Sharon was never an ideologue of the Land of Israel, but the man the neighbors beat his child and therefore you need to kill them. Had ridiculed me once in the Foreign Affairs and Defense Conference, just before the disengagement, when I asked him what would he do if the day after we withdrew they will shoot us from Gaza.

"So he took off his glasses, looked at me and said, Doctor, do not worry, we also have guns. I told him, from foreign sources I know we have guns, but we both know that we cannot use them. Then he replied, things you see from there you do not see from here. That is course an insult to the intelligence. Olmert also used this excuse and Netanyahu as well. I once thought bringing up a bill that anyone who wants to be prime minister, should be sitting for a while on a chair so he can see in advance what he sees from there and not from here. At the end I did not bring up such bill. What a pity."

A hard nut to attack

Even if "-Otzma Le'yisrael - Power to Israel" will not return to star in unflattering headlines, MK Aryeh Eldad (62), will be remembered as the personal envoy of Lord Huntington Levantine Labour. Unlike his friends to the faction Michael Ben Ari and Itamar Ben-Gvir, Eldad was able to wrap the hawkish doctrine with brilliant formulations along heart rendering cynical exhilaration. His sharp tongue whipped with full alignment with his views and for ten years in the Knesset did not skip anyone.

In a discussion of the government on arriving at the criteria for releasing terrorists with blood on their hands, Eldad noted acidly: "I once treated a terrorist who lost both his hands in an attempt to attack, maybe he meets the new criteria." When the prime minister and most of the ministers were absent from a discussion, they informed that "This is a parade of lack of pride to abroad countries" and that "the next time there is a need to appoint a prime minister that will arrange work schedule and will make sure that not everyone leaves at the same time for a Schnor (fund raising) trip, begging for aid money, each one for his/her needs." In a violent clash with security forces during the evacuation of Amona, he expressed strongly: "they treat people here like they do not/will not treat the Arabs [enemy]."

With all his extremist views, he is still being considered to be loyal to his beliefs and a decent MK. "I grew up in a very ideological home," he says of himself. "I got a personal example from my father who fought for his ideas and paid personal price for it as a persecuted minority. We did not have in great ideology discussions at the Shabbat table, the messages were passed through observing him, how he selected the essence from the nonsense and how he made difficult decisions. Tried to follow him and do the same."

In June 2008, when then-Prime Minister Ehud Olmert began conducting indirect negotiations with Syria, in a discussion of the Golan lobby at the Knesset Eldad claimed that "Whoever takes such action that removes an area of the state from her sovereignty – need to receive the death penalty or life imprisonment." Following the complaint of MK Colette Avital to the Knesset Ethics Committee, it was decided to remove Eldad from the plenary for one day.

"They say I'm a fascist, racist, extremist," sums Eldad whether with humor or seriousness. "I heard people think so and I am not hurt by this. I am required to deal with what I say and not with the titles that they bind me with. One needs to argue with positions, not curses. My father was also attacked with such nicknames and has long life. That means that it is not fatal. I guess that if they said I was moderate, I would be afraid that I have compromised on my principles. Only one time I was considered a moderate, when Michael Ben Ari entered the Knesset. He centers me. I almost became mainstream."

It's weird. Your father's friends ser in prison because they blew a bomb in the yard of the Russian consulate in Ramat Gan, and members of Meir Kahane movement, the spiritual father of Ben-Ari, were charged with similar patterns of terrorism against the Russian representatives in the United States, and yet you are moderate by comparison to him?

"When Michael Ben Ari says something, they immediately shout at him, a fascist and a racist. They spared me of such praise because of the differences in style. I can equally say harsh things, but because of the way I present them they treat me differently. I construct sentences differently, choose them differently and I am less involved on activities on the ground. I am also a tougher nut to attack. I'm a Palmach member, I know the country, I am a scholar, from the academia, I was honored to serve as brigadier general in the army. There is some appreciation towards me even among those who adamantly opposed to my worldview. So even when they argue with me, they argue politely."

How were your relationship?

"Our connection was ideological and political within in the National Union. Ben-Ari is an educated man, Doctor of History. I appreciate his integrity, his adherence in the cause, the courage to be condemned and persecuted. After all the human temptation is to be embraced and loved. Why to insist on tell someone to their face that he/she is corrupt when it is possible to get around him/her with pretty words or simply keep quiet? I remember that half a year before I was discharged from the army, Mofaz organized a major reform of the army, so great that to this day the army is correcting its damages.

"They brought his plan to Palmahim and presented to the senior command. Then they took a break, drank coffee and invited the public to a debate. And that day is when I met the colonels and the brigadier generals. At least half of them thought it was a catastrophe. The other half thought it was a nuclear holocaust., But who signed for the debate? Two people. myself and the Chief of Communications Officer. I told the officials that day, because of this reform they will not be able to evacuate casualties in the next war, but what should concern you is the fact  that you all know that this is a catastrophe and none of you dares to go against it openly.

"We saw this disaster in the Second Lebanon War, when the entire General Staff know that Dan Halutz was wrong and there was not one general in the army who rose and said to him, you cannot conduct a war this way, and if you continue, I put my ranks on the table. This conformity is completely against my personality. That is why I can appreciate Michael Ben-Ari. If he has the truth he will go forward with it with courage and will not look sideways."

And if his truth is dangerous?

"For this there is a state and laws, to see if his words are within the law."

Stupid little generals

Eldad served ten years in the Knesset, after he served in senior positions - the chief medical officer in the IDF and world renowned professor for treating burns. During this period he acted as a secular Right-wing who believed in Greater state of Israel and the Jewish people's right to settle in all parts of the Land of Israel. His most extreme  behavior was expressed in his resistance to the disengagement plan, when he moved his home from Kfar Adumim to Sa-Nur settlement that was designated for evacuation. When the disengagement became reality he established a website in which he called for nonviolent civil disobedience against it.

Eldad initiated the establishment of a parliamentary inquiry commission to investigate the corruption in government institutions. He was a member of the Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee and the Labor, Welfare and Health Committee and was the head of the Ethics Committee and the Knesset lobby to combat public corruption. For this work he was awarded the Knight of Governing Quality on behalf of the Movement for Quality of Government and the Ometz award.

What was your impression from the Knesset?"

I realized that people are the opposite of mountains. A mountain, as you approach it, it appears bigger and people, as you approach them so you find out how truly little they are. This happened to me also in the military and the academia. I saw little and stupid generals, and the more army officers I got to know I had more difficult time to sleep well at night.  I also got to know professors and researchers, that if they offered me medicine I would think three times before I would take it.

"And when I entered politics and I saw how decisions are made, what is the degree of the ministers' familiarity with the material, what bumped, repetitious idioms they sometimes used, I had few more reasons not to succeed falling asleep. The mediocrity disappointed me a lot more than the worldviews."

What was your impression the prime minister?

"I remember when the election to the 18th Knesset ended I was a member of the National Union, and we debated whether to offer Peres to designate Netanyahu to form the government or to give the job to another party leader. Our conclusion was that Netanyahu's greatest drawback, because he is a weak leader, is also our greatest advantage. The fact that it is subjected to pressures and thus changes his positions and sacrifices his ideology works in our favor, because what the Quartet and Obama can do -  we can also do. If he bows to external factors, it will bend well in front of us too, and indeed we were successful to stop the second construction freeze."

And Naftali Bennett?

"The fellow speaks well, but have not  passed any test. Bennett knows to lead a campaign manages to inspire people, to make them follow him and give life to a battered movement that is covered with mold. Now he has to prove that his mouth and his heart equal and he will meet all his statements. Bennett is the equivalent of Yair Lapid on the Right. We need to give him a chance as e might succeed. I think he knows how to use good communication tools and touch points that are important to the general public."

Shelly Yachimovitch?

"She is a leader. She has an ideology, she leads and captivates the way in the Labor Party without intrigues. I am closer to her economic positions than to Netanyahu's positions. The Right and the Left sin to classic concepts of socialism and extremism. If you are against a Palestinian state you are right and if you are for you are Left, regardless of your positions on issues such as the economy and welfare. My friends in the National Union sometimes called me "communist', with affection, because they saw I was close in my opinions to Yachimovich than to Netanyahu."

Shas leaders?

"Eli Yishai and Aryeh Deri are not worthy to be mentioned n the same breath. Eli Yishai is a fit person without a criminal record. Aryeh Deri should have not been allowed to return to politics. While this man is there, that is a stain on the Knesset. Anyone convicted criminally should leave the Chamber. The Knesset is not rehabilitation institution."

Stengahs with Netanyahu

In the National Union faction, which includes the parties Tekumah and Eretz Yisrael Shelanu-Our Land of Israel, Eldad completed the third side as the chairman of the party Ha'Tikvahp-the Hope Party. When he left the party to run in "Otzma Le'Yisrael-Power to Israel," he did not pass the percentage entry required. "The National Union was lacking the organized mechanism of decision making" , he analyzes the circumstances of his departure. "And there was a real debate how to choose the list for the next Knesset. Ben-Ari and I demanded primaries, or alternatively, having deep surveys and Ketzele and Uri said, we will determine the list if you do not accept it, each party will go it way.

"In practice, their suggestion was copy the 18th Knesset situation, and what was hiding behind it is the desire of a group of rabbis to continue to influence the composition of the list. When we did not accept their ultimatum, they reached an agreement with the Jewish Home. At the end the dispute among the Tekumah rabbis reached a point when they said, we are ready to support the NRP, providing that Ketzele will not be there. So ultimately, what Ketzele did to me and Ben-Ari, Tekumah did to him also."

Were you disappointed?

"No. That is how political systems operate. There are mutual liquidations. I never had expectations of personal loyalty from my comrades along my road. We are fighting for the land of Israel and on the road there is power struggle. The National Union and Jewish Home did not want me and Michael Ben Ari, because it was clear to them that they will be in power and we will make life difficult for them and will turn millstones around their necks. So they said, we want to influence the coalition and if there are people who were born in opposition let them remain there."

Your friends took ran a campaign its main message was "do not vote for Power To Israel because they will not pass the percentage vote threshold."

"This is exactly the difference between hope and expectation. We always have hope that your friends will behave differently, but no such expectation. Therefore the disappointment is not that great. It was to be expected."

If not for the campaign, would you be the Knesset today?

"Right after the election I took a trip to Patagonia, and only among those I met in the most desolate world, who said they voted for us, we should have had five seats. In Israel 65,000 people who voted for us and another 65,000 liars who told me" we voted for you."

You know, it is very tempting to make a comparison between you and Ahmad Tibi. The two of you are doctors, the two of you are witty, stubborn and loyal to the perceptions of your world, do not move right and left, and you two are extreme cases.

"Very tempting to make the analogy of the similarities between these two ends, but the comparison is dangerous because it is a comparison between truth and falsehood. There are no two truths. There is my truth and his falsehood."

What is your truth and what is his lie?

"His lie is that he believes in peace, my truth is that there will be peace. Tibi and I can collaborate in legislating Health Laws and still on the subject of political opposition we are totally the opposite."

(MK Ahmed Tibi responded: Former MK Eldad represents Right-wing, delusional and messianic worldview that denies the existence of a Palestinian nation and leads to a disaster. Tibi's position is realistic and determined, believes in the possibility of a political settlement built on the complete end of the occupation. MK Tibi believe in the Right of power of the Palestinian people to their own state on the basis of two neighboring states, and advocates recognition of the Arabs in Israel as a national minority while Eldad lies to himself and alienate the rights of the Arab minority).

Why don't you believe in peace?

"Because as far as the Arabs are concerned, the land of Israel forever and ever will be waqf land that no Muslim allowed to recognize the right of the infidel, Jew or Christian, to control it. If the conqueror of the Waqf's land is strong, you may recognize his power. You should not go with him with the head into the wall, but never recognize his right to the land."

Even Arab leaders believe in peace.

"Abu Mazen is the president of the Palestinian Authority by force. Like Saddam Hussein. If tomorrow there will be elections and Hamas comes to power, all his beliefs will disappear with him. Abu Mazen is part of the Islamic processes the Arab world in going through in the recent years. But we could not identify them. After the coup in Egypt, I set at the Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee and the most experts said that they believe that in the next elections in Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood will not run because of the public's main problem is economic rather than political or religious.

"Government experts estimated that the Muslim Brotherhood will win a quarter of seats in the Egyptian parliament. A month later I was at the Pentagon and heard the same stupid assessments. The Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt became the absolute majority because as far as the Arabs are concerned the war on the Land of Israel is a religious war."

You also claim your right to the land under a religious imperative.

"Yes. We blame the Arabs they are bad, they are extremists, they are murderers, and I say, this is a two-way religious war, because we are here because of the Bible. Not because Balfour and not because 29^th November, which are document of the Gentiles who recognized the right of the Jews to the Land of Israel because of the Old Testament. Many secular revolt against this statement, because the Bible does not raise an echo with them.

"The Arab says, what is your to be sitting here? Ahmadinejad does not care, and rightly so, that Jews were persecuted in Europe. He says, you have a problem with the Germans, not with us. We are not to be blamed. This is our country. Waqfs land. The Leftist says , why am I here? Because my parents gave birth to me here? This is a historical accident, that does not make our existence here justified. The Arab is right and Iranian is right that anti-Semitism cannot be a justification for modern colonialism."

This is precisely why the peace people are willing to make painful concessions.

"But I am not willing you divide my country. Like the Arab is fighting for the country in the name of his religion, so I'm fighting for the land on the ground of the tight of the Bible. Without it we have no moral justification to sit here. And since this is a two-sided religious war, even the secular Jews should go back to the Bible as did Ben Gurion. To say that we did not only bought and redeemed the land, but that the land is ours by virtue of religion."

The lack of faith in peace commemorates the life of endless bloody conflict.

"The fact that internal and external attempts to arrive at peace fail time after time shows that both sides do not really want peace. Talks about peace reflect the mindset of the people who are not relevant to the course of history. Take for instance the Sari Nusseibeh and Ami Ayalon, one who has a tie and glasses and a fluent language and the other does not all this  but not for the suits he got where he is, and they both talk about the national census. Why is it not important? because no one, in hindsight, counts Sari Nusseibeh and they also did not count Ami Ayalon.

"The Jews wish that the Arab will be Sari Nusseibeh, but they are not. When Jerusalem of the '30s dreamed about literary salon and co-existence between Arabs and Jews, the Arab leadership eliminated the Arab side of this beautiful dream. They sent assassins and the next day a telegram of condolence. To one couple the telegram arrived one day before the murder. It happens. There are faults. That is how the problems were solved in the Arab street in the 20s and 30s. The Arabs will never make peace with us."

The meaning of this difficult comprehensive concept is that we will live eternally by the sword.

"The day we put down the sword we will not live here. Once could say it's not good for us, but this is the reality, and the reality of Israel's existence as an independent people is worth the price of holding the sword, including greasing it from time to time to avoid rust. Any attempt of the Prime Minister to establish a Palestinian entity in the heart of the country or advance peace - brought killing.

"The Oslo Accords led to the deaths of 1,500 Jews, not including soldiers who fell in the war. I treated some of them, then I am in the position  was a doctor who says Nun Frimom expression un-lanced (in Latin Primum non nocere, in literal translation First, do no harm,' First thing  do not do harm. People are not mice. You do not do on them repeated experiments, and the Left that demands to make another experiment at peace is guilty of a crime against humanity. This woulf not happened in the hospital, after the third experiment we would send the doctor to jail."

Your suggestion to lubricate the sword and to be in constant war, causing no fewer fatalities.

"I suggest an alternative, to keep a patient in fair condition instead of operating on him that would kill him. There are patients who say, I'm not able to live unhealthy life, do not want to take medication every day, I want to be healthy or die. This is the state of the Israeli Left. Find me a new cure. As far as I am concern, transplant in me cat's Pancreas. The Right is willing to settle for independent life at the price of a struggle and deterrence."

Things change, people change, saying there is no solution and no horizon is surrendering to violence and racism.

"On the contrary, who has a horizon of peace constantly lives in illusions and is disappointed every time. My horizon is unknown upfront. I come into a tropical climate. I know there are days of hot and cold weather. Humans do not change substantially. Technology has changed, the language has changed, the fashions have changed but the forces that propel the person remain as is. Changes such as the fall of the Berlin Wall and the Soviet Union are small scratches in the long  scroll of human history."

We are also a small scratch in the big scroll.

"We are an exceptional case that has no parallel. Out anomaly is tripartite: religion, nation and state. We deny our power. Five head of intelligence have interviewed for a movie and said, we must reach an agreement with the Palestinians. And these are people who fought them fiercely, some killed terrorists with their own hands, others sent others to eliminate them. But when they talk like that, you realize that the no national interest does not exist with them, but the neighbor who attacked my child.

"The war with the Arabs, for them, it is kind of neighbors' dispute. Ahmed Tibi told me once that the Arabs feared the Shin Bet till two of them became Knesset members. Then they looked at them and said, you were afraid of those? After they are interviewed on the price of bread, the Arabs say, Wow, really there is no one to fear. We must enact a law prohibiting the heads of intelligence to appear in public in order to preserve Israel's deterrence. The heads of the Shin Bet who interviewed for the film took slander Israel and ignored the influence and results of what they have said have on the public advocating war.

"The Arabs who saw the film now say to themselves, these are the heads of the Shin Bet? They are not that strong, they are not so determined, they are not really smart."

Or they will say, even the heads of the intelligence examine themselves with honestly  and are looking for ways to achieve peace.

"Bring me Arabs who will think and write like that. The Left among the Israeli Arabs hate Israel is worst way."

Even Netanyahu says two-state for two people solution.

"His followers claim he said it as tongue in cheek. It is a spin., And I say, Netanyahu already there. He meant it."

And the problem with that?

"If we become two states for two peoples, for the second nation it will be easier to destroy us. Till we left Gaza there was terror there, when we left - terrorism has become a factory for terrorism that produces missiles that arrive to Tel Aviv. As soon as we leave the West Bank it will turn to be Gaza, because that's what their relevant leadership wishes. I have no interest in their irrelevant leadership.

Do you have another solution wither than living in a constant fear and the ongoing war?

"The solution I suggest is denying the establishment of a Palestinian state in Judea and Samaria and on the other hand recognizing Jordan as Palestine. When Jordan's King says: my army is in my hands, I control Jordan - this is an excellent answer for a period of fifty years ago. Now things have changed. The strongest regimes fall, and after Syria also the Hashemite regime will fall.

"After all we are not talking about a malfunction here or there, but a process that will end in a state east of the Jordan river that 80 percent of it is Palestinian population. Jordan could call itself the State of the Panda Colors, or the Arab Republic of East Jordan, but it will be de-facto and de-jure Palestinian. The day it happens, and King Abdullah will take his gems and gold-loaded airplanes to London in order to be accepted as a London citizen  with open arms, when Idan Ofer participates in the reception, Israel should do two things.

"First to buy the first page of the New York Times and publish an ad: "Happy Birthday to you, embracing you, greeting you for the birth of the new state and extending a hand in peace or a leg for a kick, you name it ", and second to apply the law of Israel on Judea and Samaria, meaning to annex them to Israel."

What will happen with the Arabs in Judea and Samaria?
"They will be residents of the State of Israel and citizens of the Jordanian government."

And what shall we do with Iran?

"Iran is the proof that the conflict is not territorial but religious. After all Iran is interested in the Palestinians as much as I am interested in Tibetans. The Iranians want to be an Islamic empire, and the will for power along with the desire to impose Islam worldwide meet with Israel's destruction."

What is your position on the issue of Iran's nuclear program?

"In my opinion we should have attacked Iran this morning., But if we did not manage to do it this morning, so this afternoon it is also possible. I fear that Netanyahu missed the opportunity to cause irreparable harm to Iran. Netanyahu is listening to Americans, and they vetoed an attack on Iran. America is behaving like all other great empires in history trying to identify what is their interests and dictate it to its neighbors and friends.

"Obama is the most hostile to Israel president not to begin with, but in retrospect. He is not an anti-Semite, he simply prefers the orientation of the Arab world and is willing to sacrifice for this purpose  Israel's interests. Obama pays with Israeli coins for the interest of the United States, and Netanyahu is lacking the spiritual strength and the leadership that even Levi Eshkol, the simplest clerk and treasurer had, to act against him."

Once you and Netanyahu have seen eye to eye.

"Once Netanyahu and I played stengahs in parallel streets in Rehavia. We were kids, the objectives were clear to both of us. Then we grew up, and when Netanyahu taught the whole world that we must not surrender to terrorism and wrote his 'place under the sun', and how the West will win the terror and sold a lot of books and made an international career on this doctrine, we continued to see things eye to eye. But when he began to declare his support for two states for two peoples our ways separated. We began to see things totally differently."

sofash@maariv.co.il